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Predestined to Hell

The human mind cannot always take in the sobering reality of predestination. We who are predestined are greatful, but sorrowful. We know many we love are not so predestined. It hurts. Paul said he could wish that he would suffer if his kinsmen would be saved.

But it is also that same Apostle Paul who told the truth in Romans chapter 9, that some vessels were created for special use, like fancy kitchenware, and others were created for menial use, to be thrown away.

The truth is, sin is created by those who are not kept from it. The devil and Adam created sin in their acts of defiance, having been permitted to have a will apart from the will of God. They used that will to create sin. It is always that way. Only God is good, and only His Will is sinless.

So then, there are a few predestined to heaven, through God given faith. And there are many, including many who believed in predestination like Calvin and the Protestants, who are predestined to hell. They were created for menial use only to be meant for the refuse pile. Calvin believed only in Old Covenant, and was clueless about the New Covenant and its differences. And he was a murderer.

If the Protestants are destined for hell, where does that leave the Catholics? The same predetermined result awaits them as well.  Both religions were very similar in their hatred of the New Covenant.

I suggest that this is hard for many, but the elect are saved from this anger towards God that is a part of our fallen nature. In Adam all mankind fell, and some are redeemed by grace, while the majority are created to be destroyed. (2 Peter 2:12)

Now, animals are created to be destroyed in this life, like cattle. But this destruction of the unbelievers will be eternal. Animals are to be redeemed, and their demise is temporary. (Rev 5:13-14) But they teach us that the unelect, those not elected to be saved, will be eternally destroyed.
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As far as the concept of double predestination is concerned, this is mostly about semantics. Now it is false doctrine to teach that the non elect were predestined to hell because God forced them to sin. They were predestinated to hell because Adam and Satan chose to reject God.

However, those subsequent to Adam are born with a sin nature that insures their predestination to hell if they are not chosen to be redeemed. In this context, of the sin nature being inherited, it could be said that Jacob was loved by God and his brother hated before they were yet born. 

Comments

  1. Gary,

    PART 1
    On June 28, 2012, in the comments of a website blog*, you wrote, "There is no such thing as conviction by law. There is only condemnation by law. Conviction by law is a myth. It is a make believe doctrine that is bankrupt and not of Christ. The only conviction is by gospel."

    Salvation is all about Condemnation and Justification. We are born condemned in Adam, even before God gave the law. Abraham had righteousness accredited to him and was justified by faith before He was made a Jew. We are Justified by believing and trusting Christ for our soul salvation. Why? God decided to make it that way. He condemned all humans born of Adam. It is by grace one is saved, through faith. It is a gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast. (See Romans 3-8, Eph 2:8-9)

    Conviction is the job of the Holy Spirit; to convict the world of sin. It is in the context of John 16:9 which defines sin thus, that they did not believe in Jesus Christ. We also see the same reason given in John 3:18 why people are condemned. So, you are correct in saying conviction is not of the law. Conviction is by the gospel. The question is not, "Did you stop sinning?" We know salvation is not by works. The real question is, "Do you believe or do you refuse to believe?" See also Acts 7:51.

    However, you're way off base in regard to the definition and use of the term 'predestination' and the purpose of 'election'. Neither of these terms is about who gets saved and who goes to the lake of fire. There are three ways to come to the conclusions you did: 1) rip the terms out of the context they are in, 2) make a broad-brush assumption that the context is about salvation, and 3) apply your own imagination to what those terms must mean instead of listening with ears to hear the spiritual information being conveyed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your analysis of conviction of unbelief by the Holy Spirit is eloquently stated. However, if the Spirit convicts of unbelief, the person has no choice but to believe as the heart is changed. So election does speak of salvation.

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  2. PART2
    Let's look at a few examples.

    1) Predestined or predestination is always about a specific purpose, and the specific purpose only applies to one who is saved in the church age. The purpose does not apply to Israel, even though Jews and Gentiles could be saved before the church, just not together in one body. Nor does it apply to the ages after the church. The church will be God's trophy, "so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." (Eph 2:7) Catch that? In the coming ages.

    Look at the phrases that always accompany "predestined" within the context... "to be conformed to the image of his Son," (Rom 8) "chose us in him [Jesus Christ] before the foundation of the world," (Eph 1:4) "for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will," (Eph 1:5) "we have obtained an inheritance (which is not land, but every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places)... according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will," (Eph 1:11), etc. Therefore, pay special attention to the context and do not assume it's just about salvation.

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    Replies
    1. Of course those passages are about salvation. You are writing incorrect analysis of scripture, Dwight.

      Delete
  3. PART 3
    2) How much Scripture is actually talking about salvation? Not much! Salvation is so simple, it doesn't require a lot of explanation. Don't over-complicate John 3:16, 18, 36, and Eph 2:8-9. Simple? Yes! Easy? Apparently not because the vast majority refuse to trust Him for their soul salvation. Why? Arrogance! They refuse the gospel and trust in themselves instead. The resist the Holy Spirit. Same verses: John 3:16, 18, 36, and Eph 2:8-9. And what about 1 John 2:2? The sins of the WHOLE world! Or 1 Tim 2:4? He wants ALL people to be saved (grace objective #1) and come to the full knowledge (epinosis) of the truth (grace objective #2).

    What over-complicates matters is to assume verses talking about God's sovereignty are talking about salvation, when salvation is not even the topic or in the context. A perfect example of a very common mistake is to misunderstand and misapply Romans 9. That chapter is a favorite of many theologians, commentary authors, and preachers to show how God chose some to be saved while most will be lost, and how neither is to question God, "Why have you made me like this?" The huge problem is that this chapter is not at all about who gets saved and who remains lost, or whether God chose some for salvation and not others (who are then deemed "predestined to the lake of fire," never having any hope whatsoever).

    Romans 9 is not about salvation at all. Context is king here. Think about this. In context of the letter of Romans, what material is Paul navigating? He already covered salvation. Chapters 9-11 are about another matter. Paul needs to make a distinction about election here, because the Jews just lost their elected purpose, and election is not synonymous with salvation. Election has a human parallel and that is representation. God chose Israel to be His elect; to represent Him on earth. We read in the OT that Israel kept messing up big time, and instead of being a light to other nations, they thought highly of themselves (over Gentiles) because they were chosen by God to represent Him and were given the Law for that purpose. Pretty soon, they couldn't even touch or eat with Gentiles. Romans 9 is an example of God making sure His sovereign plan to be represented the way He wanted, his purpose of election, happened, and continued to happen, even if He had to choose persons and roles to carry that out, or choose the church over Israel.

    Note: even if one is saved, they could refuse to grow in grace and not be a good representation, and God will discipline them, even take them off the earth. They're still saved, just not representing God according to His plan. "That is why some of you have fallen asleep" (1 Cor 11:30).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Had God revealed His Son in you, by sovereign effort, you would not even be contesting predestination. So, Volcker now contests predestination? I figured he would look into the perfect law of liberty and fall away. He never heard the truth, and I have always felt that way about Geof but if he rejects predestination he is turning New Covenant Theology on its head.

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  4. PART 4
    3) Because many do not understand what Romans 9 is about, they jump to the conclusion it is about what they know: salvation. They draw conclusions based on the application of their own imaginations, saying, "Well, it must mean salvation because we've seen that word 'election' before and I think that refers to salvation, too." They are premature in thinking they 'get it' and start telling others what it absolutely says. Before you know it, group think; everyone thinks they now know it is about and they repeat the same blunder. Instead, we need to humble ourselves, become teachable, and listen to all that God is telling us, such as what election really means, and what is God's plan for His saints (believers in the church) on earth after they have been saved.

    Is the armor of God in Eph 6 about fighting against sin? Fighting for the truth about salvation? Or maybe it's more. Maybe it's about the mystery of the gospel. It was this message with which Paul was entrusted to make plain to everyone (Eph 3:6-7). Salvation was not new after Pentacost. So, pay close attention to what was this "secret and hidden wisdom of God destined for our glory before time began." (1 Cor 2) What is this mystery that was "NOT made known to the sons of men in other generations" until the church started? (Eph 3:5)

    What does it mean in the context when God says, "I will have compassion on whom I have compassion?" Does compassion equate to salvation? What about, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated?" Does this mean God hates those whom he predestined for the lake of fire? How do reconcile this with John 3:16, "For God so loved the world?" Are we supposed to add to His words so it becomes, "For God so loved [just a tiny minority of] the world [and hated the rest]?" Don't forget, there was a reason for all this in Romans 9, "in order that God's purpose of election might continue." And again, election does not equate to salvation.

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    Replies
    1. New Covenant Theologians who can't understand the mystery of predestination are a dime a dozen. And so are you Dwight.

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    2. The mystery of salvation was that the Gentiles would be saved. That is the mystery. Other than that, salvation is accomplished exactly the same way through all ages, by the sword of conviction by the Holy Spirit. You do not provide any evidence in your writings of that conviction because you deny that that conviction is compelling. The power of the gospel compels, not man's persuasion.

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  5. PART 5
    Treating predestination like it's about salvation is like the cliche of how everything becomes a nail when your only tool is a hammer. God's has a much bigger plan than just salvation. Not all Scripture is about whether one is saved or not. Salvation and its method have been known ever since it was needed. But God is accomplishing something amazing with the church, something which "'no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him' these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit." (1 Cor 2:10) Get that last part? He has revealed it to us! God has big plans for the church. Let's stop thinking tiny, as if predestination and election are all salvation. Let us pray that the "eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints" (Eph 1:18).

    Do you clearly know what the mystery of the gospel is? Probably not, and that's okay. It is not being made plain to everyone like it should be. Paul was an ambassador in chains not just because of the message of salvation. There is another gospel, one that was a mystery, hidden and now revealed, that was Paul's mission to speak boldly about. Luckily, it's written for us in his letters. Be careful not to miss it, or you will be missing treasures hidden in Christ!

    "For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. (Col 2:1-3)"

    "Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen." (Eph 3:20-21)

    Dwight

    * http://ids.org/author/author-geoff-volker/biblical-law-always-does-the-same-things/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Geof is wrong, and it is a FATAL error. The elect in the Old Covenant were saved by the gospel, not the law. They were brought down by the gospel, not the law. The law taught of Christ as the fulfillment of the law. Therefore, the conviction by the gospel of Christ is the fulfillment of the law and has always been.

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    2. This was my reply to the link you provided and I stand by this statement, and the truth of it is from God:

      "There is no such thing as conviction by law. There is only condemnation by law. Conviction by law is a myth. It is a make believe doctrine that is bankrupt and not of Christ. The only conviction is by gospel.

      All men feel guilt. That is irrelevant to the elect being convicted by the gospel. If anyone counts guilt of law, preparation by law, as being something that is necessary to salvation, they are deceived. All men have guilt. Children have guilt.

      It is therefore, not a preparatory work for salvation and everyone who teaches it is is lost."

      Delete
  6. Dear Gary,
    I'm sorry for the delayed response. My schedule has been incredibly busy. Fear not, though! I'm back and this will be my last reply to your blog. Thank you for allowing my comments and giving yours. I didn't realize you were so angry at people who did not agree with you. You are obviously a very religious man. I'm treading where I'm not wanted, so I'll try to be brief. I know now that we could never engage in a meaningful dialogue.

    I just want to finish with this thought: that Gentiles would be saved is no mystery at all. Before there were Jews, there were only Gentiles. Abraham was a Gentile before he was a Jew, and it was then, Paul explained in Romans 4, that Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness. And Paul made this point specifically to show that Gentiles were saved before anyone was given the Jewish sign of circumcision. To think that the mystery is that Gentiles would be saved is as shallow as a kiddie pool compared to the ocean. God just freely gave His Spirit, who searches and reveals the deep things of God (1 Cor 2). And you think the church is merely about salvation?

    In Christ,
    Dwight

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  7. Not angry, just defending the faith against pretenders, Dwight. As far as Abraham was concerned, he was a spiritual Jew prior to becoming a physical Jew to establish the physical nation. Faith made him a spiritual Jew as were all the elect from the beginning.

    I find you to be shallow, not deep, Dwight.

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  8. Abraham was a Christian as we can see from Galatians Ch.4. He looked forward in faith to the time when Christ, his earthly seed, would come to effect the salvation of the world as promised by God. All persons, without exception or distinction, who believe in the deity of Christ's person and trust in his atoning work on the cross for our sins, will be saved, unless they deliberately give up trusting in His grace.(John 3: 16 and Hebrews Ch.6 and Ch.10).

    Salvation is the gift of God, not faith (Ephesians 2:8) . Faith is like breathing; it is common to all human creation. We all have faith in something or other but if we will not let the object of our faith and trust be Jesus Christ then our destination continues on the broad road to destruction.

    It is the process of salvation (in Christ) that has been predestined; not persons. God's salvation is sufficient for all people, but efficient only in those who humbly receive by faith what has already been done for them in Christ.
    Faith come by hearing this good news of the Gospel, and we should sow bountifully and reap bountifully. I have never heard anyone preach to an audience from the pulpit or at a revival meeting saying there is very little hope for the hearer because the doctrine of limited and restricted predestination has already decided the matter beforehand. It can't be done !

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    Replies
    1. I'm sorry, Gordon. But Scripture does not support this view of predestination being about the process, not persons. I understand the desire to get away from the idea that predestination pertains to specific individuals. It doesn't seem fair or characteristic of God. But it clearly does have to do with specific persons. Please keep reading...

      You would be correct, however, if you said predestination was not about the salvation, nor the "predestined to hell" status, of specific persons. It's not! As you point out, salvation is absolutely available to all. I love the simplicity of Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 3:16. (Although I would stick with what the verse says, grace is a gift of God, and salvation is by grace. "For by grace you have been saved, and this is a gift of God." It does not say, "for by salvation you have been saved...")

      What does predestination refer to if not the process of salvation or that specific people would be saved (or predestined to hell)? You left a clue in another phrase that is inaccurate, "Abraham was a Christian." Indeed, Abraham was saved; "he believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness" (Romans 4), but he was not in the church age which started at Pentecost. Not everyone saved in every age is a Christian. Only those who are saved in the church age, which Christ established according to the Father's plan for a specific period of bounded time.

      So then, what is predestination about? It is about God deciding before time began, among those people who will believe and be saved, which will live in the church age, which has an inheritance that is far better than any other age.

      This statement makes perfect sense now: the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist, even though Christ says no one was greater born among women. (Matthew 11) Why? Wasn't John the Baptist saved? Who could be greater than the one who cleared the path and announced His arrival? Absolutely John the Baptist was saved! But he died before the church age began, which Christ was ushering in and God would have established at Pentecost. Only on and after Pentecost did God "freely give His Spirit" to believers (1 Cor 2). They may have been anointed before the church age, yes, and certainly God's sovereign choice was at work then, too (Romans 9).

      But, now, in the church we are His sons and daughters and He is our Father to whom we can cry out, Abba, Father!" Abraham was not predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ as we are, but he was saved nevertheless (but to a different inheritance). What a glorious thing He has done for us Christians, in the age that the church is the body of Christ, the fullness of Him who fills all in all! It is in His work we can trust and rely, 100%. Our job is to understand the Father's will for us in this age, as Christians, to grow and mature (Eph 4).

      Want to see just how distinct, powerful, and wonderful predestination is? Read Ephesians 1, humbly, with a sincere heart.

      PS - This view of predestination is not commonly taught, unlike the "dime a dozen" remark above, but it harmonizes with Scripture. It fits like a glove when contrasting what it means to be under grace versus under the law. Galatians is an awesome book. Apparently they started by the Spirit, but they were trying to become perfect by the flesh. In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Grow in grace, therefore, and in the knowledge of His Son, and be sanctified in the truth; His word is truth (John 17:17). A Christian is not an Israelite. Neither was Abraham a Christian. He did this, predestined certain believers to be in Christ, "so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus," (Ephesians 2:7) and so that we would be among many sons brought into glory.

      Amen!

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